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Week 11 - Nietzsche, GS 4-5

Page history last edited by jenneke_olson@berkeley.edu 14 years ago

 

GAY SCIENCE, Fri 4/9

 

Book 4 (297, 299-301, 307-8, 312, 319, 322, 324, 326-7, 329, 334-5, 339-41), Book 5 (343-7, 352-6, 359, 361, 366-8, 371, 373-4, 377, 380-3).

 

Pick an aphorism from anywhere in Books 4 or 5 that you absolutely, vehemently, overwhelmingly disagreed with. Post your choice, along with your arguments against it, here on the wiki and be prepared to defend them in class on Friday: it will be you against the rest of the class for about a 5 to 10 minute period of time. Please do not respond to or try to rebut anyone's arguments here on the wiki, as we will be doing that in class (but feel free to come up with arguments ahead of time). PLEASE POST YOUR CHOICE NO LATER THAN 5 PM ON THURSDAY, 4/8 so that everyone has a chance to read your arguments.

Thank you!

~Chris, Sara, and Jenneke 

 

Comments (7)

jenneke_olson@berkeley.edu said

at 4:08 pm on Apr 8, 2010

376
I chose this aphorism because I feel like Nietsche was trying to convey the proposition that when humans die of natural causes, they are supposedly ready for death and accept it. I disagree with this and I feel like there are very few who would welcome death in peaceful matters.
I also question the phrase he uses: "Artists feel the maternal species of men: they always believe at every chapter of their life that they have now reached the goal itself". I don't think that people go through life in order to hit milestones and as a result I don't think that artist can "feel" that. If needed, I will elaborate in class :)

Michael Pruess said

at 9:40 pm on Apr 8, 2010

HAHAHA I WAS IN SCHOOL PAST 5 PM

I'll post in the morning. Sorry class.

Jack Gedney said

at 12:01 am on Apr 9, 2010

I think I've read through all of the assigned sections, and I have to say that I haven't found any that I "absolutely, vehemently, overwhelmingly " disagree with. By the scarcity of responses, maybe some others are having the same difficulty.

And while I know we aren't supposed to commence arguments on here, I feel like Jenneke's objections (the only objections yet posted) go away completely in Kaufmann's translation: "This is how all artists and people of 'works' feel, the motherly human type: at every division of their lives, which are always divided by a work, they believe that they have reached their goal." Here, as opposed to Jenneke's translation, it is very clear that Nietzsche is talking about artists and "people of works" only. I don't know how her translation continues, but in Kaufmann's, it doesn't seem to be about "dying of natural causes" at all, per se, but rather about creative satiety and pleasurable fermatas.

Jack Gedney said

at 12:12 am on Apr 9, 2010

280

Maybe tiredness makes me more accepting of what Nietzsche tells me, unleashing my latent scorn for the herd, but right now the best I can come up with in disagreement is with section 280.. He says that churches are architecturally unsuited for thinking in, that even if they were "stripped of their churchly purposes" they would be still too tied up in religious patterns of thought. Maybe here he is getting merely caught up in his hatred of the church, but what do I really know about German ecclesiastic architecture? Churches can certainly be "long, high-ceilinged"--I like thinking in nice churches. Maybe just because I live in a time that has incorporated the idea of cathedrals as tourist destinations rather than primarily religious structures, but I feel I can "think my own thoughts" in them.

This is a minor quibble, and I still have doubts about the universal validity of my personal experience.

Stacy said

at 8:15 am on Apr 9, 2010

I just read the "Post by such and such" section. Jenneke, I apologize. BUT...I guess I don't feel too bad though since only two people have posted.
I also couldn't find an argument I absolutely, vehemently, overwhelmingly disagreed with. Thus, I have chosen an aphorism that I somewhat disagree with.

#359 - The revenge against the spirit and other ulterior motives of morality.
I guess what I disagree with the most is the first sentence: "There is a human being who has turned out badly, who does not have enough spirit to be able to enjoy it but just enough education to realize it,..."

I feel like Nietzsche is going too far saying that a spirit can be measured. He doesn't really say how a spirit can be measured in the first place. And how can he assume that a person lacking enough spirit feels ashamed? And why does the spirit of such person become poisoned? I think this is important because he does say that poison is what leads a person to end up in a "stage of habitual revenge, will to revenge."

This is probably the biggest objection that I found in the aphorisms that we had to read.

Mazzin said

at 10:31 am on Apr 9, 2010

I choose number 346 - "Our question mark" I dont totally disagree with it by I will try to

Mazzin said

at 10:37 am on Apr 9, 2010

Oh my argument against it, Nietzche says "We have become cold, hard, and tough in the realization that the way of this world is anything but divine; even by human standards it is not rational, merciful, or just" He is referring to people who are "unbelievers, godless". I think for someone who is a strong believer in Natural Selection you can find just and definitely rationality in the world, for everything in the world is all aimed at a common purpose- expansion and continence of species.

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